Naseeruddin Shah Interview: “I’m stuck in mediocrity, condemned to making films that I hate and which are forgettable as soon as they’re made” | Bollywood News

Q: So how did you manage to escape Cannes all these years?

A: (Laughs) I thought I was mainly doing films that go to festivals, and I don’t know of any of my films other than “Nishant” which came to Cannes, but I wasn’t brought. Shyam Benegal I preferred to get along with Smita and Shabana and create a sensation by going down with these two beautiful ladies. (Laughs)

The only other (film) festival I went to was in Rio for Mohan Joshi Haazir Ho.

Q: And what was it like being here for “Manthan” and the applause after the screening?

A: Oh my God, it was deeply moving. Firstly because I am very proud of this film. I would have done any role that Shyam asked me to do, and to my surprise, it was the one. When my first film ‘Nishant’ released, it was a moderate success, it was also highly acclaimed. Every actor found a job. Smita became a star, Shabana was already a star. Girish started doing the lead roles, Amrish (Puri) started doing the heavy roles, Mohan Agashe, Kulbhushan (Kharbanda), everyone started getting work, not me. (Laughs)

I didn’t understand anything, and I went to Shyam and asked him what did I do wrong? And he said, you see, people are confused. They confuse the actor and the character. With the way you come across in “Nishant” as a namby-pamby who doesn’t do anything heroic, neglects his own wife, falls in love with this other woman, that’s not the kind of character people relate to . And you don’t seem particularly magnetic. But don’t worry, I have something for you, he said, telling me about “Manthan”; this is the part that will generate more work for you.

I was jumping for joy. That was the only feeling I had at that moment. I didn’t think that 48 years later, it would be celebrated in the land of Godard and Tati. I wonder if even Shyam thought this would happen. I just wanted to give the best performance possible.

READ ALSO | India at Cannes: What Payal Kapadia’s victory means for our film industry

At that time, I really believed in methodical play. The rest of the cast was very amused by my antics. I was trying to become a villager. I stayed dressed in this costume all day. I wanted to appear dirty, not that Indian villagers are impure, in fact they are much cleaner than city dwellers, but I wanted to erase all traces of urbanization from my personality.

On my mother’s side, my family is a landowner near Meerut, so I have seen the villagers up close. My grandfather was a landlord and he wasn’t the nicest people. I saw the way he treated those who farmed his land and did small jobs for him. I could empathize with both, Grandma and the guy, and that kind of observation helped me.

Q: Shyam Benegal told me that he asked you all not to swim.

A: I think I was the only one who obeyed him (laughs). I don’t think Smita did that, but Smita had this incredible charisma that God gave her, she didn’t have to do anything but appear on screen.

Q: The story of the film is incredible. Were you aware of its importance at that time?

A: Hell, no. I had no idea about anything, that dairy farmers live in such dire conditions, process the cattle themselves, then transport them on their bicycles, now motorcycles, and sell them to their customers . Or that they were at the mercy of double-dealing landowners. Today there are more than a hundred thousand cooperatives and India is the largest milk producer in the world.

All I wanted then was to amaze the world with my acting. In retrospect, that taught me that it wasn’t an acting job.

Q: To stun the world? And at the time you thought you were the best thing since sliced ​​bread?

A: Yes, I always believed that (laughs). Shyam would chastise me and tell me not to play the character as you see him, not to play heroic, he is not a hero. At the end of the film, it is not the victory achieved, but the long road ahead.

Q: Did you feel the caste system (which is shown so well in the film) while filming?

A: Oh yes, I saw a shopkeeper yelling at a girl to get out, and it really hurt me. I was in a village uniform and no one recognized me. I heard people being treated in derogatory terms and I remember wondering why these people couldn’t be treated like humans.

What makes the film modern is that the topics it addresses, whether it’s patriarchy, the caste system or the rewards of collective effort, are still relevant today. It is also important to note that Dr. Kurien (Verghese Kurien, the architect of Operation Flood, on whom the character of Karnad was modeled) is never transformed into a superhero of any kind, and is shown with its strengths and weaknesses.

ALSO READ | How Kurien’s idea led to the creation of Manthan

Q: Now is a good time to ask you this question, which I’ve always wanted to ask. You have said several times that this type of cinema (parallel, arthouse) was disappointing, and so you moved to the other side (commercial, mainstream).

A: No, that’s not entirely true. I did not change. I never denied that I wanted to become a popular actor. No one becomes an actor to serve art, it is to be known, to be famous, to be looked at. And me too, but I wasn’t prepared for it.

Q: I saw “Sunayana” (one of his first mainstream films, which was terrible and duly tanked)

A: Oh my God (laughs) I did “Sunayana” right after “Junoon”. It wasn’t like I completely gave up on those films and started making commercial films. “Sunayana” was such a disaster and I was terrible at it. And I felt, when I was filming, that I wasn’t good at that kind of thing.

When I started lambasting these new age filmmakers, it wasn’t because I wanted to dump them. I continued to make films like this throughout my career, even after the success of films like “Tridev”.

I was still a little put off by the narrow-mindedness of some of these filmmakers, and by the fact that they didn’t seem to progress from film to film. I don’t want to name names, but they would make the same movie from time to time, and with little skill. Even Manmohan Desai talks about the plight of the factory workers and he does it in a more entertaining way than you, so what’s so special about you?

I felt disappointed. If I gave the same kind of performance in every movie, would you cast me again? So there was a whole group of people I no longer wanted to work with, not including Shyam. I would do anything for him at any time, and I always have.

So it was not an about-face. For me it was about being more selective by trying to make more popular films in addition to serious films, even if I was not at all cut out to make that kind of cinema. If you ask Mr. Bachchan to play a character like Bhola (the role he plays in Manthan), I don’t think he would be able to do it. Likewise, I wouldn’t be able to play his kind of roles.

Secondly, to be convincing in this type of cinema formula, you have to have affection for this type of cinema, which I don’t have. I have never been convinced by commercial Hindi films. Only 5-6 which left a deep impression on me – Pyaasa, Do Bigha Zameen. The technicolor singing and dancing was not for me.

Q: Is that why you continued to do theater?

A: Damn, I’m stuck in this mediocrity, doomed to do this my whole life, to make films that I hate and which are forgotten as soon as they’re made. Theater kept me sane.

Q: Funnily enough, the films that made Naseer angry, “jinse unko sabse zyaada gussa aata hai”, are the very ones that lasted and people still praise. Isn’t it ironic that the kind of film you turned your back on brought you to Cannes and is so widely celebrated here?

A: Yes, it’s extremely ironic. And it’s lucky that people don’t remember the bad work you did.

Q: Is there anything in the popular lexicon that appealed to you?

A: “Masoom”. It’s definitely not a purely commercial film; it’s very tender, very authentic, very truthful. It’s a film that I’m very proud of. I’m happy to have been part of it. It introduced me to four generations of children. I wasn’t married at the time, I didn’t have children. Even “Tridev” which extended my career by around ten years. I wasn’t particularly good at it, but it was so new to dance to ‘Tirchi topi wale’.

Q: You have spoken clearly about the rise of bigotry in recent years. Has this had an impact on your career? Are there any regrets?

A: I have no regrets. I couldn’t bring myself to be complimentary. I have no fear. I don’t think I lost a job because I spoke out. I have never been unemployed.

Q: Has your religion ever interfered with your roles?

A: I don’t think my religion is an obstacle. The film industry only has one. Mammon. We must denounce things if they matter to us. I never went too far or hysterical, but I always believed in calling a spade a spade.

Express to Cannes: All We Imagine As Light by Payal Kapadia is a meditative monologue about solitude and connection.

Q: So you’re leaving here with an unforgettable evening…

A: Yes, it was so emotional. So many dear friends are gone

Q: Was Smita a good friend?

A: No, she wasn’t a good friend, but I loved her very much. He was a wonderful person to work with and we had a great relationship.

I’m not close friends with Shabana either, but I think that’s a good thing. Your real relationship is bothering you. Sometimes that can add a certain charm to a film, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a good thing to be close friends with people who often work together.

Shabana and I have a deep affection. I love her very much, and she, me, and when we work together, we approach each other like blank sheets of paper. It was the same with good old Smita, and I really miss her.