‘Hacks’ Showrunners Explain This Final Twist

This interview includes spoilers for the season finale of “Hacks.”

“Hacks,” the Max comedy about a famous (and somewhat infamous) Boomer comedian and her nervous Gen Z writer, has always stayed on the sunny side of realism. But in the penultimate episode of season 3, the series shifted to pure fantasy: a major network gave its late-night show to a woman, Jean Smart’s Deborah Vance.

If this was the climactic event of the season, the finale, titled “Bulletproof,” landed a few extra punchlines. After offering Hannah Einbinder’s Ava the position of head writer, Deborah, acting out of fear, walked away from the offer. “I can’t give them any excuses,” she said of her network’s bosses. “This show must be foolproof. It has to work. I’ve lost too much not to do it.

“And you’re okay with losing me too?” » asks Ava.

Ava doesn’t stay lost for long. She returns to the writers’ room blackmailing Deborah about her brief affair with the head of Tony Goldwyn’s network. Which should result in an excellent comedy for the fourth season of the series, announced earlier this week. Because in the world of “Hacks”, hurting people hurts people, and then they write a killer routine about it. “Hacks” insists that you can only make jokes if the world cracks you up first.

So, can a person with good values ​​and boundaries still be funny?

“We’re doing our best,” Lucia Aniello, one of the showrunners, said during a recent video call.

Aniello was joined in the Zoom window by Paul W. Downs, her husband and another showrunner. (They announced their marriage while collecting a 2021 Emmy for Outstanding Directing in a Comedy Series.) Downs also plays the role of the manager set up by Jimmy, Ava and Deborah. In another window was Jen Statsky, the third showrunner. Aniello and Statsky met in a sketch group in 2009; Downs and Aniello met at an improv class that same year. This means that their passion for comedy, with or without trauma, is long and deep.

During an hour-long conversation, they discussed ambition, addiction and whether the “all for laughs” philosophy was worth it. (Short answer: Yes.) These are edited excerpts from the conversation.

Season 2 left Deborah and Ava in a good place. Deborah had filmed a successful special; Ava was going her own way. But now, at the end of season 3, their relationship is once again a disaster. You couldn’t leave alone enough, could you?

LUCIA ANIELLO Where’s the fun in that? We like the audience to feel like the grass is being cut out for them. It also forces us to push the characters and their relationship further.

But why wasn’t that enough for them? Why can’t they enjoy their success?

PAUL W. DOWNS For Deborah, it’s really lonely and destabilizing to have such success and not have your closest colleague to share it with. And even though Ava is finally doing what she says she wants to do, there’s something about the meaning she found in collaborating with Deborah and chemistry. He misses this creative collaboration.

JEN STATSKY It speaks to the truth of this industry, which is when you’re starting out, you’re like, oh, if only I could get this job, that’s the dream. That would be the pinnacle. But as you work, you start to realize that these career benchmarks, they’re amazing and important, but they feel hollow without people to share them. Ava realizes that once you start becoming successful, these things don’t completely satisfy you. You need more. You have to share it with someone else.

But Ava has someone else. When the season begins, she’s dating a sexy actress, every writer’s dream.

DOWN His sexy actress girlfriend is incredibly charming and incredibly attractive and an incredibly good partner, but she’s not necessarily funny. A lot of people do comedy because they feel a purpose in it. Having this goal and sharing it with someone like Deborah makes this relationship unique.

Earlier in the season, Deborah’s daughter DJ compares comedy to addiction. Is laughing addictive?

ANIELLO Certainly. For some people, that’s the most important thing. They don’t care if they’re making fun of an arena or an open mic in the middle of the day at a coffee shop.

If comedy is addictive, is there a detox?

STATSKI You have it forever. I don’t think it’s going away. I think it’s something innate in you. With Deborah, no matter what crazy levels of fame and success she gets, it still bothers her if someone doesn’t laugh at her joke.

DOWN For them, comedy is an art form. And like most artists, that’s what lights them up. They choose what their passion is.

Much of the season revolves around Deborah’s quest to land a late night show. Why is this so important to her?

STATSKI When she was a child, her family would sit and watch Carson and laugh together. It was a brief respite from a difficult home life. Comedy can be a method of survival; I know it was for me. Deborah remembers that it was the only thing that held her family together. She wants to be the Carson of our time, and she’s pursuing it more than she ever has in her life.

And she understands! A woman becomes the host of a flagship late-night talk show on a major network, something that has never happened in the real world. Were you afraid that no one would believe this twist?

DOWN There’s definitely some wish fulfillment in there.

ANIELLO We spent a lot of the season going through all the obstacles and how difficult it is. So we don’t separate it too much from the real world. We also show how someone like Deborah would scrape, claw, beg, borrow, steal to get the job. We hope we earned it.

Does late night still count? Do they only give it to a woman when it no longer matters?

ANIELLO We will explore this.

STATSKI We talked about the glass cliff and how women only have an opportunity when that opportunity is doomed.

Why can’t Deborah give Ava the editor job?

ANIELLO There was an internal struggle with his heart and his head. She wants Ava to be her editor because she knows they do the best work together. But his face says, I’ve done this before and if there’s an excuse, they’ll just look at the fact that I have a woman as head writer and say, that’s a bridge too far.

STATSKI Deborah is the product of 50 years of experience in an industry that has been truly brutal to her. It is impossible to forget the lessons she learned.

What does Ava sacrifice when she blackmails her way into the job?

DOWN She sacrifices her moral compass.

STATSKI She does it to improve the series. And she knows that for Deborah to truly listen to her, she must speak Deborah’s language and measure up to her. She must be a formidable opponent.

I’ve seen all three seasons. Ava and Deborah continue to break up and reconcile. How many times can you rinse, repeat?

DOWN Five? I don’t know if there is a number. You can’t keep doing things the same way. You try to change the dynamic to keep it fun for the actors, keep it fun for all of us. But we are constantly trying to surpass ourselves and make it better and more surprising. What does this mean for the next step? I don’t know, or maybe I do, but I can’t say.

ANIELLO Initially, we presented the series with the ending in mind. So we have an idea of ​​how many times you can flip this card.

So it’s supposed to last five seasons?

DOWN This is what we hope.

Are Deborah and Ava good for each other?

DOWN Yes they are.

» Said their manager.

DOWN But I really think so. They really open up to each other.

STATSKI There are people in your life who make your life harder but better. Without each other, their lives might be easier, but not as rich and as good. Sometimes it’s very hard, but in the end it’s better.

Is comedy good for them?

ANIELLO That’s all they are, really. This is what they want most.

STATSKI It’s healing for both of them. With all of their past struggles and trauma they’ve experienced, laughing with each other is ultimately a very healing experience.

How much pressure do you feel to make Deborah’s jokes good?

ANIELLO We put a lot of pressure on ourselves.

DOWN It was crazy to present a show where we’re going to do this character study, but we’re also going to write a lot of good stand-up jokes. It was a daunting task.

STATSKI We all love comedy. We feel really lucky to be doing a comedy. It’s well-founded. It’s true. But above all we try to make people laugh.